46. A modern artist who wants a brand
How do you commit to a visual style when creating visuals are your job? 👩🎨 In this episode, abstract artist Alice wants advice on creating a brand that augments her paintings. The catch: Alice’s paintings are each unique in their own way, and she wants a brand that will last. The episode teaches you how to look for visual connections and elect for simplicity with your brand, no matter your industry. Recommended listening for any type of creator: artists, designers, developers, and more.
Episode transcription
Phil:
Hello there. This is Brand Therapy and I'm Phil.
Lauren:
And I'm Lauren.
Phil:
Oh yes you are. Hi.
Lauren:
So today's episode really thrilled me. It might've been one of our favorite interviews ever, ever with Alice. Well it's with and it's just, I think it's so interesting to talk about art and the feeling that art gifts in an audio medium without ever actually being able to see the art itself. It's pretty fascinating.
Phil:
You have my full attention now. I was chewing a candy and wasn't ready to talk, so, but now you have my full attention. The candy is clear. It's true. You know, we will talk about it, but no one actually gets to see anything. But it is still very interesting to explore this kind of branding challenge that Alice faces, which is figuring out if, what she has online, communicates what she represents, where she's going as a business. So good little chat.
Lauren:
Yeah. Yeah. And Alice’s main concern is that obviously what she does for a living is very, very visual and she doesn't really know how much of an influence her art should have on the way she presents her brand online. So it's an interesting discussion and I think for anyone who's, who does any kind of art, whether they're a producer or a graphic designer or what have you, this is a good episode for you.
Phil:
It's a good one for you. I'm going to eat another candy. We're going to get to this episode right now. Here is our chat with Alice.
Alice:
Hi, my name is Alice. I'm an abstract painter. I live in London. And my question for you really is I set up my website about three or four years ago and branding was one of the things I didn't want to get hung up on. So I don't really have any. And things have evolved pretty well since then, but I'm aware now that I really need to go back to it or I just think I need to go back to it and look at my branding. So I suppose my question is when the rest of my website is quite visual, how do I put character into that branding, but that supports what I’m showing with the artwork and doesn't fight with it. That was the first part of the question and then if we need more, I've got something else for you, but maybe we should start there.
Phil:
Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think actually, the way that we explore this and answer it today will hopefully answer the other questions you have there is, um, I'm sure Lauren feels the same way, but there's a few things I want to unpack in what you just said. By the way, congratulations on the success you've had as an artist that's exciting in itself. And I want to know why. I want to just kind of explore your self awareness here and I want to know why have you been successful?
Alice:
I don’t think there is a really simple answer to that. I think it's a combination of lots of things. I think things all mesh together. I suppose the biggest thing that I've learned is that it can’t always be down to just one thing. Unless that one thing may be if you just keep going and doing what you're interested in and sharing it so that other people can be part of it. I think that was the biggest hurdle for me is getting over that anxiety of things have got to be right or perfect or you have to know will be answered before you begin because everything good that's happened has come from taking steps into things before you feel you’re quite ready for it. So perhaps that's why.
Lauren:
I'm looking at your site, Alice, and first of all your work is beautiful. It's really nice. And second of all I noticed at least from the paintings that are featured on your site, there's a very similar kind of like thread of color between all of your paintings. It feels almost, it's like rich but also beautifully kind of muted at the same time, like it feels very deep but it's not in your face. Do you generally, and have you historically always gravitated to that color scheme of like grays and blues and burgundies?
Alice:
I think that people have personal colors are always drawn to and I think perhaps living in England and the weather we have maybe pulls me to these more muted kind of colors but I’ve always just love these colors which are a bit richer and deeper and they just got a little bit more intrigued in depths to them than colors that say always bright and vivid. But I do love mixing a little bit of something vivid in with something more muted because that stops it being dull. But I don't set out with a color clan so I suppose there is just something instinctive that you're drawn to. Like some people really like bright, vivid rainbow colors or pastels and I just don't.
Phil:
Alice, this is so easy. Alice is a visual artist and literally probably more so than anyone we have ever talked to on this podcast has a visual brand. I've used this analogy before but I'm going to say it again, Alice, you bring the gift and we just help you pick out the wrapping paper. You know, that's what branding is and you must have a website and I think that you need like just a basic portfolio Squarespace website that possibly if you've got the inventory, allows you to sell your products directly on your site or at least accept payment and then arrange pickup.
Let's just come back to that in a second, but where Lauren is going with this question, when I asked you why have you been successful? I like what you said, but I think there's more to it than what you just said. You said, you know I've worked hard, persevered, but actually you as an artist, partly part of why you're successful is that you have a brand. You have a visual style that people can trust you on, that people can rely on that. When I commission you to do a work or I decide that I want to buy your painting, it's because it has your style, your little something, something your brand.
So where Lauren is going with that question as we're trying to, as we're looking through some of your work, I mean that is like the most amazing inspiration for just kind of figuring out, pinpointing what that visual brand is. Is it color consistency? Is that the style in which you paint? In the way that I would like before hiring a graphic designer to do a branding job, I will go through their portfolio and say what's the common thread between everything they've done? That common thread, just the fact that it exists tells me that they are senior, that they are good, that they've been working. I think there's a brand, there's a common thread in the work that you do before I say what I think it is, I want to hear what you think it is. What is that commonality, that common thread in an Alice Sheridan studio painting,
Alice:
But this is the thing that's so hard, isn't it so hard to see in your own work? It's like when people say, what do you do really well and you can never recognize it because you didn't think you'd do something particularly well because it's just what comes naturally. That's why I think it's really interesting to get somebody else's input on why I'm here, I guess. Because I just find it so hard to put into words, but the common thread I suppose visually, expresses mock making but then not too general. Well for me it's a feeling of space and something that mix and fluid combined with something that's more controlled. I think that's always what I'm playing with when I paint, but I just don't know how that translates into how I do all the branding elements that go around the website. Is that what you're looking for?
Phil:
It is. I like where you're starting to think on this topic because you're self reflecting, you are increasing your self awareness and while it's kind of stressful, you know, and awkward almost in a way to look at what you've done and go, what makes this great or what may, what's that common thread is, I keep saying really important that you do this, but guess what, today you're on brand therapy so it's not just you alone in this quest for what is the brand, you have us. So we're going to help you. Yeah. Cause I've got your Instagram feed pulled up right now. To me your brand is very clear. Lauren is usually a little bit better than me at putting this into words. So Lauren, you go ahead. What is Alice's brand?
Lauren:
Well I see your brand as being that blank slate, like that museum wall that houses all of your paintings. And just adding onto that, usually when I go to museums like art museums, like the Tate, one of my favorite things to do when I'm walking around the halls of an art museum is looking at the paint color that's been selected and the fonts, the typography that's been chosen for the display signs that give you more information about the work or the artist. And some of my very favorite exhibits when you walk in, they're my favorite because you're surprised by the wall color that was chosen that makes all of the paintings pop. I'm thinking about one artist, I can't remember who it was, but it was at the Tate last year and I walked into this room and this dark, olive green paint color was everywhere and I wasn't expecting it and I went into the next room and there's this like deep eggplant color.
So I think for your brand, I would love for you to think like a museum curator, like think like the exhibit designer and instead of thinking website wall, imagine your paintings in the flesh in a museum and what colors you would choose and typography. You would choose to accompany those paintings in real life and then use that to develop the digital elements of your, of your brand. I know I didn't really answer the question what is your brand, but I hopefully that makes sense.
Alice:
I think that’s really interesting because at home I have a deep olive green wall in one room and a deep slate blue wall in another room and the paintings look fantastic on those colors. I suppose I just started with that, keep it clean, keep it fresh, white website background. And I suppose I'm hesitant, that when it comes to translating it to how it looks in terms of the graphics. Maybe I'm just nervous about making that jump to the whole site. I mean, I love it in the sense of a feeling, it's something that's intimate and personal and pulls you in, feels quite cozy and welcoming. But could it also feel dark and gloomy?
Phil:
Yeah, I think you're overthinking this. You've done the hard work. 95% of the work is making a beautiful painting that people want to buy. The remaining 5% is just making it accessible so that the person who wants to buy it can buy it or someone who wants to browse it and see your style can do that. Your website can be so simple. It can be literally a homepage with a scrolling banner of a few of your pieces. Squarespace has a theme specifically designed for photographers and artists where it features multiple photos, for example in the scroll and I would just do one of those. You could keep your website a white background so that the work pops, but I love the olive green and I love the slate blue. Those colors reappear on almost every line of your grid on Instagram, which tells me those colors. That is part of your brand.
Just in terms of pinpointing it, and I'm saying this out loud because obviously the people listening can't see the feed, but I see a lot of slate blue and a lot of green and almost that little mustard color might be the third common color. And I would just treat your website like you were designing your exhibit at a show or in a gallery. That's it. work, about, and contact. Really. You need three pages. That's it. Beyond that, I mean start there. You can add a blog, you can add the other elements, but this can be really simple.
I love that advice Lauren, in terms of thinking of this like a gallery, right? You'd walk in, you'd read a little blurb about the artist, but not too much, because people want to look at the art. They don't want to read an anthology of your experience in life. Like short paragraph. Who are you? Why should people care? Make it about the work. Show it in a certain order that makes sense and make some color decisions. I don't even think you need a really fancy intricate logo. In fact, the logo could be the way that you sign your name in the corner of a painting for all I care.
Lauren:
Oh that's cool.
Phil:
Yeah. Right. I just, I'm giving you some advice here that will allow you to realize just how simple this is without overthinking it. Because, you have already done the hard work, which is creating a career out of this and your work has really beautiful and the kind of engagement and interaction you're getting on platforms, like Instagram, is proof that you're onto something and that you can, you just have to make it accessible. We describe branding as recreating the in person experience. So, the in person experience, if it was designing your gallery, that's how you should think about designing your website. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. You could do it in a weekend.
Alice:
Yeah. And I think, um, I put this together a while ago and the, I mean there is possibly, I think what I'm picking up from what you're saying is less copy, don’t worry about the copy. But I suppose one of the things I was really interested in doing is traditionally there's always been this emphasis on the gallery model and having to go through galleries and lots of people's perceptions in that quite standoffish. I want it to be different. Like I want it to be open. I wanted people to be able to approach me to ask questions, to get an insight into the work. Some of that comes through maybe with the words that's a more inviting because it leads people into making that contact, which is what you need. Cause it's a big thing buying a painting online, even seen it in reality. So there has to be a degree of lead up in the whole story. But I think you're saying that perhaps that's not as important as I think it is.
Phil:
I think that you need to approach the project in phase one, phase two. Phase one needs to have, I need to have a website that tells people who I am, what I do, why they should care in a way to contact you.. Phase two can be, let's add a blog, let's add a weekly show on Instagram live that shows people what you're working on that week point 1, point 2, point 3, done. You know, let's add in phase two, content creation on unexpected platforms like LinkedIn for example, where we don't expect to see are on LinkedIn. But that motivates me to want you to do that because it's not expected. Maybe we can implement some Pinterest strategy. I like this idea of making your work accessible and even making it accessible for you to be able to have a conversation around the art. Lauren, any thoughts on that? I like where this is going in terms of brainstorming creative ways to be accessible as an artist and almost make someone feel like what they're buying is something they what they're expecting, you know, just based on a photo.
Lauren:
Yeah, I think, and granted I'm not that familiar with the art world, so I know that Alice, there are probably lots of nuances that I'm going about to like chatter right now, but, but bear with me. Um, so I really like your Instagram is awesome and I want your website to feel more like your Instagram. There's one post that you made on November 8th where it's a photo of a camera taking a photo of your painting and it kind of, it adds dimension and depth that is currently like kind of lacking on your website because your website is just focusing on the paintings which is like the traditional thing to do. So I think Phil's right to approach it in some phases.
First switch over to Squarespace. I'd make it more of a portfolio gathering, a gallery and very simple. And then the next phase would be to incorporate more photography. And honestly I would love a little bit more of you being incorporated into part of this website. I think the craftsmanship and the thought that you put into your pieces needs to come across on the sites that paintings show their value and some photos that are very similar to your Instagram, like closeups of you holding a paintbrush, like mid painting showing the paint, like drying, basically as you're moving the brush across the canvas. I think shots of you and action, I think interesting angles of the paintings that show the texture with natural light bouncing off. So that's kind of what I would imagine in phase two being is adding a bit more depth to the digital experience. But start with phase one first because I think once you have phase one, down, phase two will seem a lot less daunting.
Alice:
Yeah, I love the idea. I think definitely Instagram did sort of takeover a bit last year and personality and that's why I've got this feeling now that the website needs some attention. So that is, I think that to make the website more like Instagram feel is, is really, I can take that as really tangible advice and use some of those images I'm making anyway on and just make them work a bit more on the website. But why do you say move to Squarespace? I'm interested in that because I've got everything set up, I've got the E-commerce, I've got the shipping category, I've got all of that. So to move it to Squarespace is going to be a huge job. So why is that top of your recommendation?
Phil:
Yeah. You don't necessarily have to make, if you've already got a base on Wordpress, like if you've already got it in place and you've built that infrastructure, you don't necessarily have to change it. So if you're comfortable and you can update Wordpress easily, then keep it there. You're an artist so you don't want to spend your days updating your website. You want to spend your days making art. So if someone was starting from scratch, I think that's how I was thinking of it, I would say go to Squarespace. It'll take you half the time. Alice: Yeah, nice and simple. Phil: Yeah, exactly. But if you're already on Wordpress and that's what you know and that's going to take delete, that's the path of least resistance then rocket. For sure. For sure. For sure.
Alice:
Brilliant. So you kind of confirm that I'm overthinking this. No surprise there. But let the work be the focus first and then let the personalities come out through the work, through the images of the work in the way I show it. I'm still getting hung up on a low day style.
Lauren:
Exactly. And another example is on November 7th you have a photo on your Instagram feed of a flat lay of all the different used paint brushes that I guess you are using that day. A photo like that would look really, really cool as a background to text. Like if you had a white overlay tint over top of that, so it was just subtly adding texture with text directing to different parts of your site. Feel free to incorporate those images that are more related to the creative process that you do and I think that you're going to, you're going to feel like the site's brand new.
Alice:
Yeah, I love that. I love that idea. It's kind of it building, building the stories around it, but in maybe an even richer way than you can do because, on your idea of using more photos of me, I think until now I've only got them on the about page. But it would be nice to have a few more in a more in a richer way, wouldn't it? On the homepage or the welcome introduction thing.
Phil:
Yeah. Cause I mean people do love the art, but people also love the story around the art and it's often the story that sells it as much as the art itself. So you know that. So just recreate that in person experience. You know, what are the questions that people are asking you in person before they buy a piece of art? Answer those questions on your site because they're wondering the same thing. Who made this? What was her inspiration? Those are all these great topics that you can just delve into as your storytelling. And through storytelling., also marketing yourself. So I think that just, that's a great path forward.
Alice:
Okay. That feels fun, which is always a good place to be when you're starting on refreshing. Fascinating. Finding something that feels fun to you, is a good place to be. I've got one more question for you though. There were various other things I now do that are associated. So I have a club for the artists. I have a free group for other artists and I'm about to do a podcast. So each of those have branding in themselves which are different. The feeling is different but obviously they are going to be linking to them from my main website. Any tips on dealing with associated brands that have slightly different feelings but I suppose still need to be part of the same family? I mean I'm thinking that color palette is probably the thing that people see most immediately but I love your idea of using typography.
Phil:
Yeah, I would normally, I'll take this one Lauren cause I'm often having this challenge when I am building websites or Lauren is like kind of crafting the copy and the way that we use words to tell this story. I'm thinking how can I take all these mismatched visuals and let them live together. A good example is if someone is adding media icons on their website to show all the media outlets they've been featured in. Usually they're all different colors, all different sizes and it gives me a panic attack. So I normally take the time to either strip those icons of color, black or charcoal or even one of your branded colors. If your brand color is like an olive green, you could go a little bit lighter on those.
Obviously I can't change the logo of CNN, but I can certainly strip it up that hideous red color and make it one of my own brand colors. So I'd explore, as you said, strip the color and just see how it can live black and white and then kind of go from there. How can you keep what makes it unique, keep it in text, that kind of thing, but just so that they can live together. It takes, it's worth it to take the time to make that work within your brand so it doesn't overpower what you've created and in this case, overpower the art.
Alice:
Fantastic. Thank you. I will. Bear that in mind, pulling all the strings.
Phil:
Wonderful. I'm feeling very excited about everything we've talked about. What's going to be your next step, Alice?
Alice:
I think the next step is finally, sort out a bit of a brand cheat sheet for myself because at the moment when I add color, it does tend to be a little bit, you know, I kind of pick a color from the sky whereas I can limit myself and they are more coordinated. That would help. And then I'm definitely going to go back through instagram and my image bank and think about how I can use those images more creatively. I think just modernize the way that the whole website feel. Hmm. So two key things. Improve the topography. That is also something I'd like to do.
Phil:
I love it. You've got your work cut out for you. I think that this has been an interesting kind of exploration and I love that it's like I said, it's picking the wrapping paper, but you've done the hard work and created the gift, so great. You should be very proud of that. Great work on that. And we look forward to hearing a little update from you on how everything goes.
Alice:
Well, it's great to chat with you and I have to say since your advice on Pinterest, even though I haven't been doing it every day, I think my monthly views have gone up from 24,000 to 180,000 a month.
Phil:
Yay.
Alice:
So nice tips there Phil!
Phil:
Yay. I love hearing that. Well, I'm so excited that that's useful for you and actually, I know that this conversation is going to be useful for other people, so it's a little wind when we help each other out.
Alice:
Right. I'll let you know how I get on with things, and thank you so much for your time.
Phil:
Wonderful. Thank you so much Alice. It's been a pleasure to chat with you. Good luck with everything. We'll chat with you soon.
Alice:
Okay, Thanks Lauren.
Lauren:
Thank you.
Phil:
Well that was a great conversation. I like talking to artists and I like even more talking to artists who are successful because I feel like that in itself is way harder than any kind of branding or website challenge. Do you agree?
Lauren:
I do agree. Oh my goodness. When we were speaking with her the whole time, I was thinking, I wish I was an artist and I'm so jealous. But then I remember that like she's probably been working so hard for decades and it's pretty like her style is so fascinating. I love when people have a brand and don't realize it, don't you?
Phil:
Me Too. One of my favorite things and they're super humble about it. It's like I ask the question, you know, what's your visual brand? Especially to an artist or a creative. I say like, what's that through line? Even when I'm on campuses, it's like students say I want to go into graphic designer. I want to go into branding. I'm like, well, you better figure out what is it about your work that keeps it all together. I love when people are really humble or it's like they work so hard that they don't even take a minute to stop and reflect on what that might be. I Dunno. It just shows a lot about the type of person she is. And I think that it's one of the many reasons she has found success is that she's just really focused on the work, what her customer wants, you know, what her audience wants, what they respond to and less about her. But you know, it's a balancing act between the two.
Lauren:
Definitely. And there's one thing that we didn't talk about in her interview, but I'm, I'm hoping she's listening to this now and hears it and this goes for anyone who is displaying some kind of portfolio on the web. I think that there's this fear that comes with displaying any kind of artistic work online that your brand will overshadow or compete with your work and that simply isn't true. Don't you find that a lot of the most powerful branding nuances come from when colors are mixed with other colors and making your work pop?
Phil:
Definitely. Yeah. I think that's a really good point. And I guess because it's more just the unknown. I mean for us, we do this every day so it's not. But for other people it is kind of like how do you make that decision that has to represent this whole body of work or the whole body of services or products that we sell. So a great conversation. A really good one. I hope that you have found that useful. I know I found it useful. Got me thinking a lot. We want to hear from you #brandtherapy I am @philpallen.
Lauren:
I am @thelaurenmoore.
Phil:
And honestly if you've taken the time to listen, spend valuable minutes and seconds of your day on us with us, we want to hear from you. Find us on Instagram, Twitter, we're in all of those places and if you enjoyed this episode, we'd love even more, if you took a few minutes and leave a review, that really actually helps other people find this podcast. So thanks for hanging out with us. Any final thoughts, Lauren?
Lauren:
Aww, I just, my goal in life is to buy one of Alice's paintings honestly.
Phil:
Well, keep podcasting and maybe, just maybe.
Lauren:
Maybe Brand Therapy will help me buy Alice’s painting
Phil:
A full circle. Thank you guys for hanging out with us today and we look forward to seeing you back again right here on Brand Therapy.
Lauren:
Bye.
