55. A VP who knows how to prospect (f. Ryan O'Hara)
Is there an easy way to decide your written brand voice, once and for all? 🤔 Enter archetypes. Our expert guest Ryan O'Hara explains how he uses brand archetypes to shape his engaging content online. Hosts Phil and Lauren drill Ryan on the different archetypes, instant inspiration for each, and, most importantly, how to use your archetype to take your personal brand promotions strategy to new heights. If you feel lost, uninspired, or just plain confused about what (and how) you should post online, this episode is for you!
Episode transcription
Phil:
Are you ready for this? Na na na na na...You're supposed to introduce the podcast while I'm doing this... na na na na.
Lauren:
Oh my gosh, I’m not participating in this.
Phil:
You have to!!
Lauren:
I'm Lauren
Phil:
and I'm Phil.
Lauren:
Let's never do that again.
Phil:
This is a podcast where we're having some fun today because our guest is fun, even though it's a topic that many people are scared to talk about.
Lauren:
Archetypes
Phil:
Archetypes, and how they relate to your business in terms of growth, sales, outreach, all of these ugly topics. But Ryan, our guest, Ryan expert, Ryan, just, I just, this is one of my favorite conversations we've ever had on his podcast, truly, truly, madly, deeply. Do you agree?
Lauren:
I agree. I agree. He's so entertaining. He's a true master at promoting himself online. And he also is just extremely resourceful. So I think people are gonna Laugh. I think they're going to be entertained. I think that they're gonna learn a lot. And overall it's just a, an awesome, awesome expert appearance on this podcast.
Phil:
Let's do it. I think we should just get right to it. Here's our conversation with Ryan O'Hara.
Phil:
Hello Ryan. I'm really excited to talk with you. I met you. I don't even know if you remember this, but used to work well, I know you remember where he used to work. He used to work at Branded.me and that's when we first connected. And then,
Ryan:
yeah, I remember that. Yes, I do remember that.
Phil:
Yeah. And we kept each other on LinkedIn and then I used to never spend any time on LinkedIn. I always called it like the Dell of social media. It's ugly, but it works. But more recently, spending less time on Facebook and more time on LinkedIn. I like, I just eat up everything you post because I find it hilarious, as hilarious and engaging as your voicemail.
Ryan:
Wow, this is, I try to go all out on this. I, you know, it's funny, it's something I've actually tried to work on right now, um, is I looked well maybe I shouldn't talk, maybe we should not,
Phil:
No, say it. Say what you're going to say.
Ryan:
So we are kind of shifting a big part of our strategy this year to be even more all out on the idea of trying to entertain people. In the business, the business world, the way that are marketing themselves and doing things. It sucks. I'm helping. I was helping a rep this morning with new years. I'm teaching some stuff from a prospect and we're looking at LinkedIn profiles with the company going after. And I'm just like, there are people making like two or $300,000 a year getting paid to write this shit. And it's terrible. Like they just, they don't make stuff that it sounds interesting and cool. Like people or person buying this stuff and signing checks and making contracts with people are people that want that are human beings. They go home and they have fights with their wife. They go to the bathroom, they have to deal with the big thing are painting the asses for them. The whole way that it's set up and no one writes copy to make it so that like, Oh man, I'm going to be on this website. I'm going to at least enjoy it, but if I'm going to get this information, I want to at least enjoy it. So I’ve really tried to shift our strategy a lot more to be focused on infotainment and stuff.
Phil:
I just think it's so out of the box, but then when you describe it, in the way that you just did, it's kind of common sense, right?
Ryan:
Yeah. Yeah,
Phil:
But so few people do it that it isn't common sense and it's just another case of us retreating back to what we know humans enjoy and respond to as if we were together in real life, having a giggle about something. Why aren't people doing that online? Because it's memorable and it's engaging, right?
Ryan:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Phil:
I want to know what is one small thing, Ryan, that anyone could do in their outreach efforts or prospecting, what, what have you, whatever you call it. What's like one small example that people could do to hopefully be more memorable or to hopefully do something that leads to a conversation.
Ryan:
Yeah. I love this. So the thing that I think a lot of people don't talk about is that in tech, especially like the startup world, and you know companies that aren't publicly traded, the average person changes jobs once every 18 months. So that means that the first six months they are shy. They are figuring stuff out. The next six months they can actually do stuff. The next six months after that, they usually are staring down at the top right of their screen all day, waiting for five o'clock to hit. Knowing that, I think if you're doing some stuff on outreach, you better be providing something that's entertaining if they're going to interrupt my day. The other thing is you need to prove that you're extraordinary. You need to prove that that person you're picking is extraordinary and that's all you're picking up. If you write a cold email or send a tweet or an email or whatever you're doing on LinkedIn and you're reaching out to someone, if you take a second and change the frame of your message to be more about why am I picking you?
Why are you special to me instead of why I want you to on a sales call with me or get on a meeting with me or do something for me or do a favor. You'll see the writing becomes a lot easier for you to do and you'll get higher response rates just in something as simple as that. The changing of mindsets be wrapped around how is that person? That's why are you scouting them? You're GM of a sports team and you're trying to get this person to sign a contract with your team. That's kind of a way to look at it, sort of. As opposed to I'm a sales rep, I want to do what my boss has told me and send a hundred the same emails, everybody messages and stuff.
Lauren:
I love it. I love it. And you're so entertaining. Like even your voicemail made us laugh. You're going to hear, have a voicemail of us laughing. But, but I want to know what's your advice on being entertaining or being extraordinary for the people who are scared to put themselves out there.
Ryan:
Oh I love this. So there's a, there's a thing that I really believe in as a marketer that I learned and I learned it originally as a prospector. There's this thing called brand archetype and you guys probably know it cause you do a lot of stuff with brands and all that. But for people that don't know, the idea is that you want to try and figure out how to make your brand individually and your company's brand fall into one of these archetypes. The best companies in the world. Stick to one archetype. Good example. One of the archetypes is the magician. There's a reason that people loved Disney and pile out the door and go see all of the animation movies that Disney makes and Pixar makes. Yeah, the quality of them is great, but the way that they market themselves and their people aren't flocking to universal studios, the same way that they do to go to Disney and all the different places that Disney has.
And that's because Disney has wrapped their entire brand around being magical. If you're an individual brand and you're trying to be entertaining or you're trying to be something, you need to commit to one archetype and be that all the time. Because people don't like, seeing patterns be broken. But yeah, you want to do something that's against the grain sometimes to stand out. But if I go and if someone's watching a video I do on LinkedIn and I'm really serious in it, and then next week I do a video and I'm really goofy in it. The expectation that that user has before they hit play on that video, is going to be different than what it would've been if I did the same type of voice and the same type of personality. So as you're developing a brand, I highly recommend that you start by picking a brand archetype.
There's a bunch of them. There's the hero brand; that's if you want to do something where you're, you're, you know the person that wants to ball at the end of the game, the guy that wants to save the day. There's every man brand: that every man brand is about being relatable. There's the lover which is about being intimate, telling your secrets. They do your little sexy with the way that you present yourself which obviously I’m not! right. But you can pick these different archetypes and if you are trying to get yourself out there, you'll be more confident if you stay in what archetype. You won't be judged because those archetypes are templates that our mind already processes people as. And that way you're not feeling vulnerable. Like for me, I tried to make beat IQ and myself adjust your brand.
I tried to make people laugh. I tried to make everything about entertaining people. That's kind of my goal when I, when I make videos and stuff, I want to teach you a lesson but I want to entertain you at the same time. The reason that, yeah, the archetype is specifically focused on making people laugh, the gesture brand. But if you actually look at it, I could have been an explorer brand and talked about cool experiments that I was trying and prospecting. I could have been a seeds brand and told you about lessons that I've learned. Those are also forms of entertainment. So as you're trying to find your brand and build it out there, I highly recommend that you focus on picking an archetype and committing to it. If you want an example of individual brands that does this, uh, one I love using is Taylor Swift. As a grown 31 year old man, I should not like Taylor Swift, but I can't get enough of her music.
I don't know why I shouldn't like that stuff. Like I’m a guy that grew up in punk rock and that kind of stuff and here I am every time it says new album listen to it. And the reason is because Taylor Swift has built her brand online to be a lever brand. Her songs are literally about things that happened in her private life and she's very guarded about not giving you like it's very staged when you actually think something close to the real life because it's part of her brand. And it gets people kind of fascinated, infatuated with people like that. So like it's sort of the same thing with what you want to do with your brand and the entertainment. If you have a brand archetype it can be your compass for how you want to go that entertaining.
Phil:
That's great. I'm so happy that you went into detail on the archetypes because what I was going to ask you was easy for you to be the gesture to be funny cause it comes naturally to you. And there's like a bit of that in my delivery as well when I'm, you know, doing fans, I, you know, I'm not afraid to say what I think, but I usually say it with a little bit of sweet and also a bit of sour. And what about people who aren't funny? They feel immense stress when it comes to this, but you're saying they've got to give the 12 archetypes some thought, and figure out where they identify, right. Because you don't have to be funny to stand out when you're prospecting or doing sales or trying to get someone's attention that can very easily ignore you.
Ryan:
Yeah. I think the thing is you can pick in archetype that fits with you. The thing that's magical, we're actually all 12 architects all at certain different points are funny. All of us are rebellious, and times all of us are the king brand like Muhammad Ali and we'll talk snack and be like, oh, I'm the best. That's, we all have that in us. What do you want to do is do one that feels natural to you, but you also want to look at what other people are doing in the industry. If every think of a sales space, for example, I could've made Lead IQ, best in class technology. Talk about how great we're doing and puff my chest, but you know what? Sales are already full of like a hundred different brands. Do that already. So for you, what you want to do is write down some adjectives of how you want to be viewed and what you feel comfortable actually being, and then categorize those adjectives into the archetypes that you, that the 12 archetypes.
Then you can look them up. I wrote a blog post about it. I'm sure you probably have something on this to fill, but like you could click around, we'll come in, let them find them. Take the adjectives you write down, categorize them into, the different archetypes. Whatever one has the highest score that you feel comfortable with, that's what you're doing moving forward. And then start doing an exercise of you doing it. Start with like write a tweet that's in a certain archetype or a LinkedIn post in that same archetype. Just do some practice of that archetype. We'll see how easy it comes to you and if it feels like it's not that difficult to do, you can commit to that and that'll be your brand, but you do moving forward. I think that there's, if you look at the brands that we all like, we all resonate and have immense loyalty to certain brands because they're able to commit to those archetypes.
That's a big part of this. I think if you want to be comfortable with it, you should do something that’s you. Like for me, I like having fun. I like being casual with the way I talk about stuff. I think there's some stuff that I liked about the other architects too. That's why I relate to all these other brands that aren't necessarily gesture brands. But for me that's where I’m comfortable being. When I was in high school and college and stuff, I was like, man, it'd be so cool to like go out and how sick would it be if I was like a writer on like SNL or something or writing skits, but you know what? I'm a coward. I didn't want to go into those things. I want to do certain paths called business because I don't have the courage to do those things and now I'm just doing the same thing, but in a business setting. I'm enjoying it. This is easily the happiest I've ever been working. The team's great here. Everybody's enabling me to do what I want to do. And then the cool part is that people actually see it, which is another cool part as well.
Phil:
I love that you've committed, you've owned your personality. I talk about this endlessly, the importance of personality in branding and in business, but you've owned your personality and you've embraced circumstances that aren't normal, right? So the way in which you create content and teach people how to think outside the box is not normal within business. It might be normal in the writing room of SNL,, but like you've done something unconventional by doing something unconventional, you've stood out and that's really cool.
Ryan:
Yeah, actually it's a good way of thinking of it. It's, I'm basically peacocking unintentionally. One other thing for people that are just starting out, that don't really have a way of getting your brand out there, I highly recommend that you start by doing things with other people. It becomes really easy. If you're trying to build your audience on LinkedIn, get a prospect that you're trying to break into. If they say, hey, I've got interested right now, we're all set, say, that's cool. Why don't we hop on and do a quick five minute interview on a zoom and I'll record it and throw it out on my LinkedIn next week. I know a ton of people in the States that can help you. If you ever have your company ever closed up, it doesn't exist anymore, or you need another job or something. Yeah, you have to sell people on that.
Those things are already implied. Put it this way. I've never said no to being on someone's podcast. I know I'm going to probably get like a bunch of direct messages, but that's the thing that I'm going to do because I want to expand and have more people find out about what we're doing and what we're trying to do to help business, in general. Uh, so that's part of it. Like you're starting from zero, go get someone else who has another audience so you can start getting eyes on. I'd get their audience eyes on you too and just start doing that once a week. And then once you have a big enough audience kind of shift forward with kind of building off of that instead.
Lauren:
Do you think that it's important for everyone regardless of archetype to get comfortable with video and being on camera?
Ryan:
Um, no I don't. I actually, I know that's kind of controversial if someone, I know there are people that aren't comfortable with it. The technology is there though, where it's so much easier. I can record a video. It takes me about, well, I put a video up on LinkedIn that I happen to know how to video at and saw touch touching stuff. But when I put a video out on LinkedIn, it probably takes me two hours, but it's, it's usually our biggest day in traffic on their website. It's their biggest day for whatever we're pushing and stuff. I'll tell you this, you should do what you're good at. For me, I find it faster to make a video than just write a blog post. I happened to also write blog posts and stuff, but for me, I can crank something out a lot faster on video than I can on blogs.
If you're a fast writer, do what you're good at. I will tell you this though. Video's a lot more fun. And here's the other thing that people were screwing up on. I think you said this to me Phil, last time we talked, there's this thing where people tend to hug the way that people have been doing stuff with an existing platform. So here's a good example. Back in the old sales days, reps used to have scripts. They memorize the script, they go to the door, they knock and they'd read a script. The person wouldn't know there was a script, but they're actually doing a script in a playbook and the person at the door would be like, Nah, I don't know. And then eventually the telephone was invented and sales teams started using cold calling. What sales teams started using cold calling, what they do, they took the door to door script and they started reading the door to doors, script on the phone. Even though, audio and not being there in person is completely different.
When cold email came up, people started getting cold email. You know what they did? They started emailing phone scripts to people. It drives me nuts. It's like, it's like all these new platforms you have way more options and things that you can do. The new thing now people are doing is video prospecting. You know, what makes me sad? There are companies out there that literally have people reading what they would've said in an email just in a video when you can do anything with videos. There's so many cool things that you can do with it. We have a chance right now to change the way that people are doing business. We can make casual and fun and make people feel good about being prospected and do something that's entertaining and almost treat it like an art form.
If you're doing sales or prospecting or PR or anything where you're doing outreach, if you're a recruiter, you should approach it like you're, it's an art and you're making a Super Bowl ad for one person. That's where we're going. That's what you can do with this stuff with video, which is why I like video a lot more and if you're someone that wants to get that creative muscle flexing, I think that video is a great place to start. Another thing is audio. Audio is great for stuff, but whatever you're good at, you should stick with that stuff and do it with other people. Video makes it really easy and lowers the friction. I go to someone and say, hey, do you want to write a blog post for me? That kind of sounds like a homework assignment, it sounds like a chore. That's kind of my perspective on it.
Phil:
I love that. I want to make sure that people have, while I have you on the phone and I just am so loving this conversation, and I'm not normally an archetype person, but you have completely sold me on the value of identifying yourself within a particular archetype, staying in that lane and using it to bring out your competitive advantage. I actually have the 12 archetypes up in front of me. I would never remember these if I didn't have them in front of me, but I thought we could do something fun. The three of us to round off this conversation. If we give each other 30 seconds or less to go through each archetype. I'm just gonna say the name of it and I can explain if you want, but wouldn't it be fun to put our three heads together and see if we could come up with a creative way that that archetype could prospect. I know it's putting us all on the spot, but I think we can do this.
Ryan:
Alright. We're going to try it. Where this is going to be brave. No one judge, I'll tell you something. This is a cool idea. Let's try it.
Phil:
Okay. And so they have to be quick because there's a lot of archetypes. So let's, are we ready for this on the clock?
Ryan:
Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's try and do it
Phil:
To ease into it. Let's start with the jester. What could a gesture do to prospect?
Ryan:
I think a gesture would do something in a prospecting email that's over the top. They might make fun of a business observation and write that to the company that they're writing. Good example. You might be like, hey prospect, you're probably in a big corporate shopper with a suitcase full of money. Listen to Kenny Loggins, like I might make a joke like that in the cold email.
Phil:
That's, that's great. That's great. Okay, let's keep moving the every man. What could the every man do?
Ryan:
All right. Perfect example. If I'm targeting prospectors at Lead IQ and I'm writing an every day and email, I might write an email to someone, talk to you about how I'm just like that person. I am reaching out. I am getting people saying no to me all the time. I clock in. I got a hard hat of a blue collar worker. I'm going through and grinding and figuring that out. That's how I do it in my cold email.
Phil:
Love it. Caregiver. What could a caregiver do?
Ryan:
A caregiver would want to check in on the prospect and see how they're doing from a, perspective, of being like, hey, how's your month going? Could I do anything to help your bumps? Do I need a couple of intros? What can I do to help you there?
Phil:
That's great. What about a ruler, so they give examples of a, of a brand that's a ruler, like British Airways or Mercedes or Microsoft. What could a ruler?
Ryan:
Yeah, I, I might write something in a cold email about how if you're one of the best reps of all time or you're the greatest rep of all time, you should be using the greatest tool of all time.
that must be my best angle there.
Lauren:
Or name drop too. Like with examples of their work.
Ryan:
Yeah. Talk about the championships they've won by closing those other deals that are similar to them. That's a good one, by the way, and I, I should let you talk to you, right?
Phil:
No, no, no, no, no. You're better you guys. I'm so impressed. So creator is the next one. I'm keeping us on the schedule. You guys are the creative ones. In this case, what could a creator do?
Ryan:
Another thing is your caustic angle would be talk about building, Hey, I'm reaching out to Mark Zuckerberg. I see you're a supplier prospect. Exactly. Might be like, Hey, I saw your, you're building one of the most massive networks out there in the world. You're creating jobs. You're changing the way that we think about stuff. That's how I, that's how I'd frame it. Builder email. When I'm running at someone or a creator,
Phil:
A lover.
Ryan:
Oh Man. I might write something like, Hey, I don't want to, like I might write an email and say, hey prospect, I don't tell everybody this, but, and then I might say something that's like disclosing a little thing that they might not know about. Kind of give them a little tip,
Phil
Like a little secret that's smart.
Ryan:
Yeah. Or I might talk about something I might write about something I love, like I talk about love is usually a good thing about that.
Phil:
Simple. Okay, we're halfway hero.
Ryan:
Oh boy. Okay. Uh, hero brand you talk about, you try and get the person to feel like they were a hero. She might be like, Hey, if you're at the company right now, you don't like the way that you're doing prospecting. I'm just going to be like, hey, you don't like the way you're prospecting. We have some that can make everyone on the team love you. They'll love that. You'll save the day. You don't think it's that everyone doesn't hate what they're doing when they're doing this part.
Phil:
That's great magician.
Ryan:
Oh Man. Thinking dreams come true. Like Martin Luther King was actually considered a magician brand too. So you could write something about, like you could basically say, hey blah blah blah, I don't know what your goals are, what you're trying to do, but I want to try and make that happen for you. What are things that, what are experiences, that you'd like? And then if the prospect writes back and says, all I want to do this, maybe, maybe they want to go to the Caribbean, to go on a vacation, maybe you send them a box of sand in the mail from the Caribbean. Say, Hey, we're getting near there.
Phil:
That's a great idea. What about outlaw?
Ryan:
Oh, this one's awesome. Outlaws are all about breaking the rules? So you might write an email to someone saying, Hey, I don't know if you're supposed to do this, but if you want to really change the way that things are being shaken up there, I might just be the right guy for you. I can help you punch a jukebox and make music like you know, you just come up with an angle like that or something.
Phil:
We have three more, innocent.
Ryan:
Uh, so innocence is all about simplicity. So if you're writing a cold email to someone and you're trying to be the innocent brand, you’d probably focus on how simple something is to use. Like, Hey, your job should be simple. I can make your job simpler. I can make it easier for you to do the stuff that's, that's the focus that you want to do for that.
Phil:
Sage
Ryan:
Sage, you would tell a story or write a lesson that you've learned like, hey blah, blah, blah, did you know that when you prospect, and end an email with an open ended question, you'll get a higher response rate. The little tip that we figured out. The reason we were able to do that is because we're able to cut down time, fostering Yada, Yada, Yada, boom. That's your tricks and knowledge and there you teach a lesson. Your email, you drop a stat or something.
Phil:
Cool. Last one. I'm so impressed. Last one, explorer.
Ryan:
Explorer brand. So you would write an email to someone as an explorer brand. You would talk about an experiment you tried and or experiment you're trying. A good example, I might say hey prospect, I grabbed my webcam and I wrote music on my piano with it and I'm sending you this music. I'm trying to see if this actually is an effective way. Are you pressed with this video. What do you think? You kind of remove the metal a little bit and talk about like, Oh, this is what I'm doing, prospect. Is this something that would make you respond? It's almost like you're a researcher kind of using the research data and stuff to share that you're doing the experiment. You try an orthodox stuff.
Phil:
You did it! An example for every single archetype.
Ryan:
That was tough by the way.
Lauren:
I’m really impressed.
Phil:
Now every single person listening has no excuse to do some outreach and not feel guilty or weird or itchy about it. In fact, it should always be a win win. Right?
Ryan:
Exactly. It should feel good to be prospected. If you're getting prospected, it should feel good. We feel special. Think about someone complimenting you, but being sincere about it. And by the way, if you're having trouble finding a way to relate to a prospect, start with the person, then go to the company. Don't go to the company right away. I think that's another thing people do. So find a way to match up and make them really impressed based on their individual attributes instead.
Phil:
Amazing. How can people find you and keep in touch with you or find out more about what you're doing or reach out for help? Where can they find you?
Ryan:
So easiest thing is probably on LinkedIn right on here. I work at Lead IQ. If you want to read about some prospecting stuff, we put a ton of content out on our blog every week about some stuff that we're running and prospecting, things you've learned, examples from other people and there's definitely some jokes in there too. You'll have some laughs if you watch some of our videos and stuff? Check out our videos too. They're pretty entertaining.
Phil:
I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I continue to thoroughly enjoy your posts on LinkedIn. Thank you so much for taking the time that you have to have this amazing creative conversation with us.
Ryan:
Yeah, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate this.
Lauren:
Oh my goodness, Ryan. I, I usually like to be behind the scenes and like hiding behind Phil, but yeah, you have made me want to like burst out into LinkedIn and share my sage archetype, my boring sage archetype with the world, so thank you.
Ryan:
It's interesting. You can do it. Yeah.
Lauren:
Oh yeah, yeah. That's great. Phil, do you think you're a, you're an explorer?
Phil:
I never even, you're the one with all of these types of like systems and archetypes and identities. You're going to tell me that I'm probably explorer. Yeah, yeah. I think I'm an explorer or a magician.
Ryan:
Yeah. If you're already, a lot of the time people are already doing one of these things, they just don't realize they're doing it.
Phil:
Yeah. That's interesting. Well, thank you so much again. We look forward to keeping in touch with you and this has been such a pleasure and so valuable for everyone listening. Thank you so much Ryan.
Ryan:
Thank you for having me on guys too.
Phil:
That was, that was absolutely incredible. I, you know, we've been putting these guests, we've had on a pause on the podcast, on the spot, in the moment and I feel a little bit guilty doing it, but I know it makes for good audio, so I do it anyways.
Lauren:
Don't feel guilty. They're up for the challenge. They're great. All experts.
Phil:
They're great. Can you, I mean, I just love that there is science behind his madness and for him, comedy works perfectly, but I love that, if comedy isn't your thing, you've got a tangible takeaway when it comes to getting in front of new eyeballs and having them actually pay attention to you. That is gold.
Lauren:
It is. It is. And I think for people who maybe not lack self-awareness but who are fearful to define themselves in a certain way, this is a nice kind of in between step, um, for figuring out who you are is by finding a brand archetype you most connect with and trying to embrace that while you figure out your brand online. It's gold.
Phil:
And I'll be the first to admit that I've never been super into brand archetypes. It has always felt unnecessary because while people use archetypes to identify themselves, our process is more focused on identifying your personality. You know, the content personality that we talk about all the time. Archetypes just feel like a lot of energy into something that's not productive. But this is the first time I've made an exception on that. I think it's easy to understand these archetypes and use them with tangible strategy. You know, even if it's one single thing that you can do to accomplish your goal. The tangibility of it in this circumstance, I am loving it.
Lauren
Me too. Me Too. So what do you think was the most valuable concrete lesson that you learned from Ryan today?
Phil:
That you don't have to be funny to send a prospecting message or outreach effort that has the possibility of resonating.
Lauren:
Yeah, and prospecting doesn't have to be uncomfortable if you do it in a way that works for you.
Phil:
Exactly. It's like we're so quick to just jump to the protocol, the status quo, the norm of let's send an email introducing myself. Why do we do what’s safe and what everyone else does? But rather than just jumping to that kind of safety, why don't we take a few extra minutes before we draft it to think how can we send something that's going to stand out. I think about this when we're pitching me for speaking engagements, and I think we do this to a degree, but it's fun to hear it in this context from a new perspective.
Lauren:
Agreed. Thank you Ryan. You brilliant jester!
Phil:
Yeah, I didn't know he was gonna reply to the invitation and when he did it was not even like a sure fill, I'll do it. It was literally scheduled the link in Calendly and I said out loud by myself, yes, because I knew it was going to be gold. So thank you Ryan. We really appreciate it. What a fun chat. What did you think? If you're all pumped up about ways you can reach out to your clients or customers, sell your product or service, we're super interested and excited to hear what your takeaway is from this episode and what you're going to do next. Let us know. #brandtherapy. I'm @philpallen
Lauren:
I'm @thelaurenmoore
Phil:
#brandtherapy and continue the conversation with us. That's why we do this. We make this so that you get something valuable from it and we'd love to know what that next action item is for you.
If you've enjoyed this episode, it really helps us if you take two extra seconds, go to the iTunes store and leave a five star review whatever country you're from, that review actually gets saved in that countries iTunes store for other people to see and for other people to discover us. So know that we really appreciate it and we keep our eye on it. Well, that was fun. Thanks again for hanging out with us. We'll be back again with a brand new episode shortly. Until then, this is brand therapy and have a great rest of your day. Until next time.
Lauren:
Bye
