63. A designer who knows how to create brands (f. Elliot Salazar)
How can you brand yourself if you're not a designer? 🎨 In this episode, we meet with Elliot Salazar, graphic designer of Refinery29, to make enlighten non-designers about the critical decisions made when branding. We talk about how to choose the right color, how to channel your aesthetic, and other words of advice from Elliot's brilliant mind. If you're feeling like your brand needs a 2020 update, this episode is for you!
Episode transcription
Phil:
I'm so happy you're here. Before we dive right into Brand Therapy, let me tell you about something very quick, very exciting. I just launched a YouTube channel. My very first video is all about how to choose colors for your personal brand. Go ahead to youtube.com/philpallen to watch that video. Here we go.
Phil:
Hello, hello. Welcome to Brand Therapy. I‘m Phil.
Lauren:
And I'm Lauren.
Phil:
Welcome to our podcast. In fact, it's the podcast where we tackle your business and branding challenges. I use those two terms interchangeably because the way we look at it around here, branding is a powerful way to manifest your goals. And when applied correctly, you can make some pretty exciting changes in your career. So here we are.
Lauren:
For today's episode, we have a true visual master on. And it's pretty interesting because you can't see a podcast, at least not the way that we do it, there's no cameras. And I think it's a pretty interesting conversation about the importance of visuals and a very kind of interesting medium.
Phil:
It's definitely a conversation we have not had on the podcast. I welcome this opportunity to get creative and talk just about visuals, this is what I do in my spare time. You too. I mean, we love these kinds of things, right? And in fact, it's a big part of what we do, from putting the mood board together, to compiling colors, choosing colors and the psychology behind the decision making. It's fun to talk to someone fresh and very experienced, award winning. He's amazing. Elliot is literally a superstar.
Lauren:
He is, he is and so I think this episode is going to be really good for people who fall into one of two categories. One, you have an online presence and you know that it doesn't look good enough. And two, this is where it gets interesting, to our people who don't think visuals are important for achieving your business goals. I would argue that visuals are more important than almost anything that you could have related to your business, especially if you're selling online.
Phil:
I agree a lot of times it's an afterthought. And really when you look the part, right, even if you look bigger than you actually are, this becomes a way to actually make that happen.
Lauren:
So, there!
Phil:
So there, put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Lauren
Let's get to the episode. Let's meet Elliot.
Phil:
Sweet Elliott, change of tone.
Lauren:
Some spicy talk before sweet Elliot.
Phil:
He's the best. Here's our conversation with Elliot
Phil:
Lauren Moore, I have a little surprise for you. You know, I love to surprise you once in a while, with exciting things, right?
Lauren:
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, you love to keep me on my toes.
Phil:
Well, we've heard time and time again, the same five brands over and over. Phil's gonna kill me when I say this brand again when we reference it. And let's be honest, one of those brands is Refinery 29. We've heard it 1000 times from your mouth. Well, guess what I have for you, a friend of mine, who's been instrumental in building that brand, among many others. He is on the phone with us right now for an episode.
Lauren:
I'm really excited. Elliot, I've heard so much about you over the years and I know that you're very kind and that you give surprise gifts.
Phil:
It's true. He does.
Lauren:
I know that you're very thoughtful. Yeah, no, it's fantastic. And truly, Refinery 29 aesthetic is just so exceptional and it's so creative but stylized at the same time. I think it's truly one of the best brands out there. So, I mean, that's a testament to the amazing work you do. So welcome.
Elliot:
Oh, hi, thank you so much.
Phil:
Did you think it was crazy that I reached out to to talk about this? I mean, it's not that crazy. I was just on your website and you were literally doing press about the very thing we're going to talk about today. But do you talk about this a lot, this idea of aesthetic and visuals and stuff?
Elliot:
Um, I guess so. I guess you can say that. I mean, it's definitely a passion of mine, you know, design illustration. So it's something I always sort of am talking about and thinking about so I guess I do talk about it a lot, but maybe not in this formal humble way. But we'll see what happens.
Phil:
Nothing's formal around here. We're just having a phone call. So Lauren and I went back to find what things come up the most when we're giving advice to people on this podcast, and then incorporating experts into it. When we thought about this idea of aesthetic, building your feed aesthetic, or even just choosing colors, like literally, these are some of the questions we get asked the most of the things we talked about the most. And that's why we called you today. So maybe for starters, describe what it means to you to establish an aesthetic, whether it be a personal brand on Instagram or even a corporate brand. I think either way, people would be interested to hear your insight and maybe the beginning of your process for developing something like this.
Elliot:
Yeah, totally. I think for me, it always starts with the message, the emotion, the personal sort of story that you have, like within yourself or like the message that you want to to share with other people because I think everyone sort of has a very unique perspective. And it's all about bringing that out into like a visual way and then I think one of the easiest ways, like you mentioned is through color. It can be colors that sort of set the mood or just your favorite colors. You know, I think we all have colors that we gravitate towards for various reasons. And I think that's super, like, easy to like start with. I also just love color. So for me, that's always come very easy for me. But I think that that can be true for everyone.
But going back to what I started saying was about your own personal perspective. I think that's what's really important, especially with your sort of aesthetic, on social or just online. Because, you know, we all have our unique sort of viewpoints, but it's about bringing that forward and sharing it with other people. And I think that's what people really sort of connect with.
Lauren:
Yeah. Do you think that someone should choose colors that speak to who they are now, or who they want to become?
Elliot:
Oh, that's a good question. I can see it both ways, but I would pick colors. That's who they Like that express who they are now, because I think that, like very telling of also like the direction they're heading, in a way. So it goes back to what I said about, you know, our own sort of spective. And I think that's what really makes us who we are. So picking the colors that we think represent us at this very moment. I think there's a lot more exciting for me, because I think, like I said, it, it really expresses for what you're going through and what you're thinking about, like is a great way to bring people in and connect with you.
Lauren:
So Elliot, we did an interview recently with a really awesome person who has a business as a virtual assistant and she also teaches others how to become virtual assistants. And this area of work is notoriously kind of a female dominated profession, and she sees a real opportunity to encourage men to become virtual assistants and is wanting to make her brand a bit more masculine. Her colors right now are mint green and peach. And I'm wondering what your advice would be to her to make her brand feel, and colors feel a bit more masculine without losing sight of who she is now?
Elliot:
Yeah, I think my advice would be definitely like incorporating maybe like a secondary color that, I guess, become considered a little bit more masculine. Maybe it's more of a neutral, but maybe a darker neutral. Because I think when we think of neutrals, we definitely think of like, creams and white. But I think we can go maybe a little bit like richer brown, or maybe even like a gray. But I think incorporating sort of a neutral color like that would also be a really great contrast, just visually, but I think it could help bring sort of that aspect of like, trying to look for.
Phil:
Yeah, great advice. That's really good advice. How do you when there are millions and millions and millions of colors, how can you start to make decisions on what your visual brand Is without feeling overwhelmed on where to even start?
Elliot:
I always like to look at what I surround myself with in my life, whether it's, the book that I bought on my shelf, or sort of the clothes that I wear every day. I think especially if we want to pick colors that are representative of who we are or our brand or our company. I think just by looking around it is super easy. And it's super insightful too because I think you'll come to notice there's patterns and colors and visuals that you already sort of into that can easily become you know, the colors for your your logo or your website. I always like to look at fashion as well. Like I said, it's the clothes that I wear, the clothes that we all wear, and I think while as you mentioned things can be really overwhelming. I think if you just focus more on yourself, that can help with the overwhelming part of the millions and millions of colors. So I think just looking around and looking at yourself is a really great place to start.
Phil:
We did a fun experiment in our group coaching programs super small this where we had all of our participants go to their closet and pull a few outfits that they absolutely loved. In fact, I think we said pull a few outfits that spark joy. This was before Marie Kondo has now blown up in the country. We were borrowing her last her line, even then, Lauren told me about Marie Kondo literally years ago. So it's kind of funny. So that's what they did. And actually, we use an online color picker tool to help them make decisions using resources already around them. So that's exactly what you're what you're saying, which I think makes a lot of sense, right? Don't overthink it. Let's talk about Instagram specifically. I noticed on your feed you're doing something cool photos are in a color theme of three. That's an example I post a picture of me and every other picture so it creates a bit of a chess or a checkerboard pattern. What visual styles or systems? Have you seen lately on Instagram that you think are cool? Or brands are doing a really good job? Just let's hear it from a designer, you know, because you kind of study this stuff and think about how this plays into an aesthetic. Who's doing it right?
Elliot:
Yeah, I guess one of the trends that I have seen for a while now is the idea that images connect to one another. It's definitely like a very difficult thing to kind of plan everything out. But I think it can be super simple. If you don't overthink it. There's this one fashion brand called MSGM, it's an Italian brand. And they were doing something along those lines. But again, like I said, he was super, super simple, but I think it had such a really cool effect. They were taking sort of runway photos, which are very vertical photos of just a model in clothes, but they were actually cutting the photo in half. And posting sort of the upper body part, and then the lower body parts separately.
But when you look at the entire grid, from like a grid point of view, that vertical photo was actually connected, like when you were looking at it at it in a grid format, which I thought was really super cool, because when I was looking at it separately, I would never noticed that I thought, oh, they're just close up of the dress or the shoes. But then once you kind of took a step back, it is actually the entire photo within the grid scene. So I think, also looking at your feed in the grid format is also a really interesting sort of take on it. Not a lot of people look at it that way. But I think when they do, they can be pleasantly surprised. And I think that little spark of joy will always be noticed and you know, applauded in a way.
Lauren:
That's a really good example. I'm going to check them out.
Phillip:
Elliot is so kind, so sweet. I really love his approach to all of this. But it's time to take a little breather little break. Would you like to say something?
Lauren:
You said you wanted to take a breather and a break? I was just doing what you said.
Phil:
So tell us what we got queued up for this week.
Lauren:
Great. So, as a reminder, philpallen.co/resources has a whole bunch of free stuff for you listeners. Our blog posts this week is focusing on my favorite, well, Phil's favorite personal brand identity examples, Phil, do you want the honors of explaining what went into this post?
Phil:
Yeah, well, a lot of people Google this. They want examples. If they're going to build their brand. It's like well, you know, maybe know they, they know the steps of the process, but they just want a few examples. So we are putting together literally eight years of work branding individuals over 350 to be exact, and we are pulling some of our favorite visual examples for you to reference and learn from for your own brands.
Lauren
There you have it!
Phil:
This will give you inspiration that will make you feel inspired, literally. So, enjoy. Lauren: All right back to Elliot.
Lauren:
Do you have any design pet peeves? Are there any aesthetic things that kind of like irk you when you see them online? Like I don't know, mixing like brown and black or having inconsistent color tones or temperatures between photos like what are your pet peeves?
Elliot:
Well, I think a big part of design is typography. And, and I think that's a big sort of trend that we see on social media, a lot of quotes. And I think whenever I see those quotes, and they're kind of like, maybe not as considered, maybe the text is really, really big, really, really small. I think there's definitely a really sweet spot when it comes to text because, you know, you want people to read it, you want people to connect with the message you're portraying. But it seems like a really easy sort of thing like, Oh, I'm going to type up some texts and put it on Instagram, but I think it's a little bit more, it's a little bit more harder than it seems. So I think whenever I see, I see a lot of them too. I think that's one of the things that sort of gets me and as a designer, I think all designers are, you know, obsessed with typography so, if it's also like, not a really good typeface, I think that's always aggravates other designers.
Phil
We do love fonts. And we're at a really kind of interesting point in our business where for years who've worked on a lot with clients, they've hired us to handle all the visual creation soup to nuts start to finish done. They trust us. We work with designers that are really good. That's why a lot of our visual branding looks awesome in our portfolio, we're really proud of it. I loved your interview fairly recently with Planoly, which is an app that people use to plan their feeds. I've used it before I've gone between Planoly and Preview. I've tried all of them. And they're all you know, finally, I use for a really long time. Let's explore the role of graphic design on social media since that is what you do.
I also, by the way, love that Refinery 29 tags you in what you've actually designed rather than them just leaving out a mystery and taking credit for everything. So often, they actually tag you as the designer of that graphic. I think that's just really cool. When I go to like tagged photos of you, it's like all art, beautiful designs that people have reposted. I just think it's cool that they're transparent about that. Let's explore that the role of graphic design on social media, what does that look like and how can people be inspired to maybe incorporate graphic design and not just pictures of thing's.
Elliot:
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, Instagram started as a photo sharing app. So I think, you know, it's, it's totally filled with photos. And I think once, you know, design and illustration, and once that was introduced, it definitely sort of was set apart from all the other photos, I think that's what people sort of really gravitated towards. And I think now more than ever, I think it's super important to have sort of a graphic element to your Instagram social, because it allows you to create something truly unique. And it's also compared to photography, it's still a lot of work, but it's not as much work as you know, finding a location, taking the photo, editing that photo or taking multiple photos to get the shot.
You know, you can create it on your computer, you can also create it on your phone, there's a lot of apps, even just Instagram as well has introduced, you know, a lot of tools to use, but I think that's what's really great about having sort of a graphic element that allows you to create something completely new and different. But then also something maybe a little bit quicker and allows you to respond to maybe current events or just, you know, an idea that you have and you just want to create something. And I find myself doing that if I just like think of an idea, I can just go to my computer and create it and then post it.
Lauren:
Are there any color combinations that you just love right now, as an example, I really really love like dark forest green and a light beige right now. And with every mood board we put together for clients, I end up doing that. What color combos do you love?
Elliot:
Oh, I love colors. And I think my color combos are always changing. But it's interesting. I was just talking to a group of designers and they were mentioning how this sort of pink and red combo has been really popular. And I've seen that I think for me personally, I kind of like sort of the sort of weird color combination. It's kind of hard to, to explain that. But I think there's some really interesting color combos that you wouldn't consider firsthand. Maybe it's like, you know, like a navy with a bright orange or something, something along those lines. But I think those are always really interesting. I'm also really gravitating towards yellow recently. I think it's just because it's like bright, and then when it's paired with anything else, it definitely add sort of like, a positive feeling.
Phil:
It’s funny, we're talking about this because today, this is like the third or fourth time that I've noticed black and beige together, but black as the base. So if you look at the marketing for Adobe's upcoming conference, the body of their emails, it's black. And then beige is the overlay color and the action color and then today, I was walking around in Shoreditch, and there's a painted mural on one of the sides of the brick buildings and it's black with beige and it’s an ad for Burberry. So I think it's like such a harsh but interesting combo two colors. I would never expect to go together. But they're pulling it off. Very interesting.
Elliot:
Yeah. And I think that's what makes it really exciting because it definitely makes you, you know, do a double take when you're like, Oh, wait, what is it? And I think that's definitely what we want. We want people to notice, whatever we're creating, and if it's like a very interesting color combination, that's like a super easy way to get people to stop and take a look.
Phil:
That's a really good point is that a lot of things look good now, right? Like people have invested in branding. They've invested in photography. I mean, I preach about this all the time. I still think there's room to stand out purely based on looks, but that's a question for you. How important is it to look good nowadays? I mean, asking a designer, it's a bit biased, but I want to hear your answer anyways.
Elliot:
I mean, I think it's, it's always important, and it's super important. I think, as we talked about, I think it says a lot about who you are as a person about the work you do about the work, you could be working with clients. I think it's really important, even in the smallest of things, to put the time and effort into the details, it really shows and people will notice you. Sometimes they might not notice, sometimes it might go unnoticed, as I said, but I think when they do see it, it definitely makes a difference and then definitely makes them smile, to see that you kind of put in a lot of your heart. So I think it's really important to look good, even in the smallest of ways.
Lauren:
One last question to wrap things up. It's, I'm thinking of people who are listening to this podcast and thinking about hiring a designer to develop their personal brand. If there is one thing of it one word of advice or one sort of sentence or disclaimer that you could say to people who are about to hire a designer for their personal brand, what would it be? Would it be to like, make sure that you've got a mood board to send to the designer or to be really clear with what you're looking for, like, this is your chance to speak on behalf of other designers out there?
Elliot:
Yeah, I think it's really important to have an open line of communication, which I think goes into, like what you were saying about being very clear about what you're looking for, and sharing anything and everything that you sort of, are really interested in or really like from a visual standpoint. Whenever I work with whoever, I always tell them just like, send me you know, the really cool, you know, a piece of art that you saw in a museum that you really liked or send me something you saw on Pinterest that you really liked, but just really having that open line of communication and really working with a designer I think it will come I think that it's just like a designer working for them.
But it's really a collaborative process. And I think that's what goes back to the scope in line of communication, just talking. It can also be, you know, talking not about the project just about who you are as a person, what your interests are. I think it really helps the designer sort of get into the mindset and really informs the work that they're going to do for you. And I think that's what is important.
Phil:
I have one final question, even though Lauren said her question was the last question. This is the last question. And that are your favorite brands. Who are you paying attention to? Especially lately?
Elliot:
Yeah, I'm always really interested in brands that sort of redesign themselves, whether it's, you know, just after a couple years or a needed a refresh. I think that's always really exciting because you get to see sort of a different take on a brand that you are maybe really familiar with, or maybe not so it's like a new brand in your eyes, but I think I'm looking at a lot of publication design and I guess brands. So there's like definitely GQ, which sort of went under design. And I think they're doing some really interesting graphic design, which carries on into their social presence. And then there's also Out Magazine, which also sort of redesigned themselves and anything they sort of have a new approach to their content, but also their visual that I think is really refreshing. Especially now I think what they're doing is really, it's really great.
Phil:
Cool. Those are two good examples. We're always so excited to talk about our favorite brand heroes. By the way, GQ’s display photo I'm looking at them on Instagram is black and beige, who called it! Well, we'll take a look. We'll take a close look I am I'm like writing down everything you to learn like all these brands, these references.
Lauren:
Thank you so much, Elliot. This has been great.
Phil:
Thank you really refreshing perspective. Thanks for taking a few minutes to hang out with us on brand therapy and we look forward to catching up with you soon.
Elliot:
Perfect. Thank you.
Phil:
Color your favorite topic? Well was my surprise?
Lauren:
Weird I was so uncomfortable. You're like, I've got a surprise and I'm like this has been scheduled for a month and we've had multiple conversations about this. That's okay. You know what? Do you know what I was surprised about? That Elliot could be even more charming than I already anticipated him to be.
Phil:
I literally love his cute little face and his outlook on life. He's just such a happy, humble, colorful, just everything he does looks great. It's no surprise he works for a brand like Refinery 29. People should go check him out on Instagram. And if you want to see a beautifully curated, crafted creative feed, it is Elliott Salazar. I just, you know, I just I think there's a lot there. The really positive kind of outlook on this, which is really cool, I think.
Lauren:
Yeah, I really like that Elliot thinks you should brand for who you are today. I think that's a really refreshing perspective, choosing colors that speak to you now because if you like them now you'll like them forever. That's sort of what I took away from it. And I like that he also agreed with the closet trick that you and I sometimes do.
Phil:
He did. And you know why people have such a hard time making decisions on color and on brand? Because they feel like they're making it forever. So if you brand for you now, don't worry one year from now should you evolve as a brand like many people have on this episode or this podcast rather, like you're allowed to change it up.
Your brand, ideally is something that stays the same get your logo updates down the road as you evolve, but your colors can change even more frequently, 9 times out of 10. And so don't feel locked into what you decide today. Perfect example, Instagram feeds, you know, a certain patterning or style. You don't have to be locked into what you decide once there is something to be said about consistency. So you should be consistent, but that can always evolve into something should you pivot or evolve as a brand?
Lauren:
Definitely, definitely. And I also when we did the closet trick with our first group coaching program, like taking a photo of 10 items you really love and then seeing what the colors were. I learned a lot about myself because I always thought of myself as someone who wore black and gray and neutrals and things like that. But when I pulled out the 10 items of clothing that made me feel most like myself, and the very best, literally none of them had black. Some of them had gray but I was like, why am I buying so much black? So many black clothes? If they're not even items that make me feel almost like myself. Phil: It's true. You went through a phase where everything was black and then you rediscovered colors because I went to Stockholm so thanks Sweden.
Phil:
For people out there who are a bit stumped, maybe not quite as creative, how can we give you some parting advice on how to establish an aesthetic on your feet on your website? Let's talk about for the sake of this example. Let's talk about your Instagram. I'll go first. When you post and you look at your grid, maybe your top nine, right as people open your profile, try to repeat some colors. So whether it's The color of the sky color the water, try to repeat some shades so that there is consistency.
Not just in visuals is that word important, but really pretty much anything you do. So I would say repeat some colors, maybe plan ahead of time alleviates the stress of having to figure out what do I post every day and it's going to match what I have spent a few minutes and do it all at once like plan a week in one sitting rather than just fly by the seat of your pants, I would say choose some colors. So on Elliot's Instagram, for example, he chooses a general kind of shade and then blocks it every three pictures have that similar tone, which I think is cool. Lauren, any thoughts on aesthetic?
Lauren:
Yeah, so we didn't talk about this with Elliot but god knows you've heard this a billion times Phil, I'm really obsessed with like season, color types, choosing like figuring out where whether you should have soft, cool tones bright cool tones, soft, warm tones are bright, warm tones based on like your color. And I really think that by figuring out what colors look best on you first, it helps kind of give you a reference point for how you can plan out the other aesthetics that are associated with you including your Instagram feed.
So for example with me, I'm very fair that I have very cool skin tone. So like bright orange looks horrible on me bright yellow looks horrible on me and no matter how much I love those colors, it's they're not once I'm ever really going to connect with so it wouldn't make sense for me to have that those like warm tones on my Instagram feed. But by connecting with either a cool tone I know I'm going for like a soft book or more of like contrast saying look, it helps like ground the decisions that I make and make all the posts go together really well.
Phil:
What's a resource to use? It's someone who created that course that you love because you can share this with clients I think.
Lauren:
Her name is Daria, I'm going to butcher her last name, Daria Antonescu and she's basically created this wardrobe system, called the Wonder Wardrobe. I don't follow the Wonder Wardrobe, but I really, really appreciate her sense of aesthetic and sense of color. And she goes through the color, like the seasonal color types. I think it's been around, the theory of seasons theory has been around since the 50s. But she talks about it in a very modern sense. And I just find it's useful because if you're someone like me, for example, who loves all color and goes through phases and can't really keep in one place, I find having that sort of reference point that guiding star is really, really helpful.
Phil:
And remembering it's not what you decide today is what you have to stick with forever. It can evolve. Hopefully you found this episode useful as you build your aesthetic. We'd like to hear from you #brandtherapy. I'm @phipallen.
Lauren:
I'm @thelaurenmoore.
Phil:
We want to hear from you. If you enjoyed this episode, our conversation with Elliot, then hey, here's an idea. Take two seconds, not even two minutes, it will take less than two seconds to hop over to the iTunes store where you can leave us a review that actually helps other people discover this podcast so we work very hard to make. A fun little chat about aesthetics, color and visuals. We love this topic. We love every topic of the podcast, and we'll be back in the near future with the next episode.
Lauren:
Bye.
