68. A lawyer-turned-fitness instructor who wants to expand
When you start a new venture, do you need a new brand? 🏃🏽♀️In this episode, Phil and Lauren help guest Margaret, a lawyer-turned-fitness instructor who’s ready to expand her business in a new way. With a traditional profession behind her and a company name today, Margaret is wondering if the time is right for a personal brand. If you’re stuck between business names or industries, this episode will teach you how to clear the clutter and make a decision based on your goals years from now.
Episode transcription
Phil:
Hello, hello, welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren:
And I'm Lauren.
Phil:
And we are your hosts. Here's what happens. Okay. Someone calls us on the phone with a branding or a business challenge. We use those two terms interchangeably. We work through it for a few minutes, we leave that listener with a very happy resolution and they go on with their day and hopefully take over the world with this great advice we've given them. That's our podcast and we are happy you are here are we not Lauren?
Lauren:
Thrilled, delighted. Ecstatic. I can't think of any other words, but we're really happier listening.
Phil:
Those are good words. We should also give people a little bit of a heads up before we get into the meat of this podcast that our podcast is changing slightly.
Lauren:
Don't. Don't say anymore.
Phil:
Okay, fine, but things are happening. Things are happening, things are evolving.
Lauren:
Things are happening beyond your wildest comprehension. But that's all we can say.
Phil:
I think we should leave it at that.
Lauren:
Yeah, yeah.
Phil:
How annoying are we to just say that and not give any more details? Well, we're that annoying today. You're just gonna have to accept this for what we are.
Lauren:
It's like you're locked in and then escape room but the clue is broken or misplaced.
Phil:
There are no clues or the clue’s not even written in English. Not like okay, yeah.
Lauren:
Okay. Well, today's episode is a really, really good one. And as Phil mentioned, it's going to be one of the last that you will recognize as it is today. It's a really cool story about transformation. Our guest, Margaret was a lawyer for 10 years. Then she decided to focus on helping others through fitness and developed a fitness brand. And now she has some questions about where to go next. So I guess we could just go right into it. Right Phil?
Phil:
Let's do it. We tell her where to go next. And I think you're gonna find this episode useful for those people that are juggling two brands and want some clarity. Let's do it. Here's our conversation with Margaret.
Margaret:
My name is Margaret and my challenge that I'm currently facing is that I'm building a second business, which is a personal branch to provide women over 30 with online fitness and nutrition advice and training. And I come from a professional background. I was a lawyer for 10 years. I've personally trained women over 30 for about seven years. So this new brand, I think it takes a higher end product and branding behind it. But for the last seven years I looked at this franchise called Fuse Fit. So it's good fitness classes for women as a fusion of half dance fitness and half sculpt, and it's branded in a new, slightly frivolous, fun way. I would like to link up with the two brands to, you know, have a bit of cross selling. I don't know if there's too much of a clash between the two. So I'm wondering, do I need two separate websites for businesses completely, or is there another option?
Lauren:
Great.
Phil:
We'll explore all of this today. Okay, Lauren, any questions before we kick right into it. Did you have any thoughts initially?
Lauren:
Yeah. Yeah, I want to make sure I'm clear on what the two different brands are. So Margaret, just to make sure you've got Fuse Fit, which is your kind of signature program, and then you're wondering if you should create a second brand for the online membership portion. Is that right?
Margaret:
Well, it's two different audiences. Juice Fit I sell training to fitness instructors, okay. My Fuse Fit classes are a franchise model. So a video one day training course, and then there is the license fee to get quarterly releases, and they can take my classes and music that I have created and go and teach it to their customers. The market for fitness brands is now class participants or just women that want to get fit and healthy. And I am delivering that to them online. So two completely different audiences.
Lauren:
Great, great that that definitely clears things up. Thank you.
Phil:
Beautiful well to kind of Just explored this personal brand, the role of this, Margaret to start is the beautiful thing about a personal brand is that it never really changes it remains the constant. So we see this all the time, people put lots of effort, time, money resources into building a brand that ideally they can sell later, a personal brand is yours. So it can evolve over time it will over it will evolve as you evolve your ideas, your focus your interests, but the beauty of it is that you retain control over you. It's closely linked to you your personality, your goals, it is you right and even if that changes down the road, it still comes back to you and a lot of entrepreneurs and people over the years, we see switch from like this kind of company name or corporate positioning to having a personal brand because it is more I would argue it's more directly indicative of what makes you great in real life. So I think today it's kind of understanding will look at you the personal brand, as the business, understand that landscape and start to explore how and if you need to juggle both brands or consolidate under one sound good?
Margaret:
Yeah, sounds great.
Lauren:
Beautiful. So I think it would be helpful to know a bit more about what you would be offering in your personal brand.
Margaret:
Okay, so that's easy because I'm currently running the beta test of what ultimately going to become a 12 week online program or an annual monthly membership. And what I'm delivering in that is weekly workouts, 10 minutes sculpt workouts, recipes each week that are inline with One Small Change. So the program is called One Small Change and they also get a principles to follow each week and cheating tips. And I hope to do a live q&a. And they also get the live workouts which we can then do for the rest of the week.
The whole ethos behind the One Small Change program is that all of the evidence shows that we only have a finite amount of willpower. And we can only cope with so much at once. And in addition to that, it takes an average 66 days to finally embed a new habit. So most fitness and offerings out there are selling you a package that the values, changing all of your habits overnight and waking up Monday morning, and you're going to start working out three to five times a week, you're going to completely change the way you eat. You are going to do 10,000 steps a day and you're going to remove all of the naughty things in your diet and basically setting yourself up for failure.
Lauren:
Right Well, I can relate to that for sure, so I am probably your target audience. Yeah. So in your program, are you going to be using the Fuse Fit principles or is that going to be the workout?
Margaret:
Yes and one of the big differences is Fuse Fit is just an exercise class. There is no nutrition involved in the Fuse Fit classes. So the online program under the market shake is what small change and corporate health fitness and mindset. But the 10 minute sculpts workouts that I'm giving to the One Small Change ladies are taken from the sculpt section of myFuse Fit classes that I've been running for over seven years.
Lauren:
Great. Great. Well, I have an opinion on this already. So I think, Margaret that you definitely should have a personal brand and that this signature program should stem from you. And even just from looking at Instagram trends and how fitness instructors will literally blow up and get millions of followers for a signature program, there's a reason why that avenue works. And it's because people want to be able to connect with someone and feel like they have their own coach guiding them.
So I really think that the personal touch is necessary. And I think that that making your personal brand really the leading umbrella brand and actually having Fuse Fit, be like a sub brand would make a lot of sense. Like I think it should be you who's the front of all of this, whether it's your signature program for people, or its Fuse Fit for instructors.
Phil:
Yeah, and I have the same opinion I believe that customers respond well to evolution. And the question I would ask you that I don't even need to ask because I already know the answer is why do people go to Fuse Fit? And if I drill down on the answer to that question I've just had asked so many times on this podcast that I already know the answer.
The answer will stem Margaret it will be based on the fact that they like you, they like your style of teaching. They like the methodology that you've created your personal touch on it that keeps people coming back for more. So for us to parlay this into a personal brand, really makes sense. But for Fuse Fit to remain a sub brand of Margaret, it may, for example, be the brick and mortar space in which you do the dance and the sculpt classes, right, it could still be the studio, nothing has to change with that.
But I believe you know, you could potentially still have a separate website for it if you're getting a lot of traffic to it. But it could also be a page on your website, and that would then guide people to everything else that you're doing. So we start to then explore online programs and other offerings that you can now finally offer that stem from you and things that are connected to what people want from you. So I think it's interesting.
Margaret:
Okay, no I understand and it's so interesting that you said that because last year, I attended a Ted X talk. And it was during that talk, I realized that I wanted to diversify into creating offerings for, you know, clients that want to get fit and healthy. And for me to have more of a connection with them, so the connection is really, really important for me. And you're absolutely right. Whenever I've done my market research on the classes, a lot of dancers keep coming back to the class because of these other than me. And so I now teach that your customer, your loyal followers will come to any class you decide to teach because they're coming for you.
Lauren:
Are you you're recording?
Phil:
I'm recording, are you?
Lauren:
Shall we tell people what happens behind the scenes at Brand Therapy overlays, we're not in the same room? So because we're recording the audio separately, we make life really, really easy for our amazing editor by making sure we start each audio track at the same time. So that way, it can all be matched up, and you can edit them side by side. So every time we have our Apple devices set so you can see the second because we're neurotic. And then each person gets to decide, the second we usually alternate, I think unconsciously. Right Phil?
Phil:
Yeah. And then when we start to get anxious, we the warning, time frame goes less and less and less. So you just gave me a one second heads up. So it's like running into a room full pant and then everyone's staring at you.
Lauren:
That's gripping, gripping stuff behind the scenes of Bran Therapy.
Phil:
I mean, it doesn't get more exciting than that. Okay, let's talk about why we pause before people turn our turn us off.
Lauren:
How many subscribers, do you think we just lost?
Lauren:
Okay, so on the blog this week, philpallen.co/resources we are so excited about this week's blog post, it is a contemplate of opinion, but also advice piece on branding yourself versus branding your business.
Phil:
So we get this question a lot, almost every day, without exaggeration.
Lauren:
People don't know what the line is between being a personal brand and being a business brand. And we delve into it. There's no right or wrong answer. I would say the majority of the time we advocate for personal brands, but not all the time.
Phil:
Not all the time. And now with this blog, you'll be able to do at least you know, get some direction on whatever situation you're in, read through, weigh the pros and the cons and baby make a decision.
Lauren:
Yeah, so it's decision time. Go to philpallen.co/resources to decide what you're gonna do next.
Phil:
Love it. Let's get back to Margaret, shall we? Thank you, Margaret for waiting so patiently we're coming back to your conversation. Here we go.
Phil:
I found myself recently, Lauren doesn't know this, but I found myself recently researching the brand Peloton, and I within 30 seconds was on the Facebook pages of the instructors looking at who's qualified to be an instructor and how all of this works. So for me as any other human would, you automatically seek the humanizing element who are the faces by the brand, the top of leadership, the spokesperson, the fitness instructor in this case, and Margaret, you are the humanizing element of Fuse Fit. So I believe that this is a really exciting evolution of your brand that people are going to respond really well to.
Margaret:
Excellent. So what you think would be the optimum choice between having two websites or one together. So I have been sort of advised before that I could have one website in the name of Margaret Shenkin and that's the kind of umbrella. And then underneath that you will find the fitness space you got a few steps action. If you are someone who wants to get fit, you go to everything else. I'm just not sure whether that would be too messy or not.
Phil:
Is Fuse Fit a physical location brick and mortar or is it a class held somewhere else?
Margaret:
No, there's no physical location. So instructors, once you've trained they will teach it in a gym or ta hall within the community.
Phil:
So on your personal website first, last name.com, if it's available, if you own it, yay. And then the first page on the site, like the first one that people can click, and maybe that's where the banner is guiding people would be the Fuse Fit, if that's the most prominent part of your brand. And then maybe after that I do other like programs or learning or training or, you know, and that's where you can start to explore. Maybe you sell courses or ebooks or online, you know, Fuse Fit online or something like this, where we can start to explore all the evolutions of the ways in which people can learn from you.
Yeah, I would just keep everything under one roof. It's half the work. Or it just means that the same amount of time rather than spending time juggling two different things, you can actually do one thing really, really well.
Margaret:
Well, that's really good to hear because I have some advice has been that I really should keep it separate, but my preference obviously would be to have it together because otherwise it's like running two businesses. And so, but I did wonder, I do think I’ll probably have to keep the social media pages separate, because I am catering to two separate markets.
Lauren:
Yeah, I agree with that, or at least have a group. You could have one page, that's your personal brand, but then have groups that are for the audiences. So not only are you able to deliver them custom content that suits their needs, but they can actually connect with other people who are in a similar situation, whether their fitness and instructors are trying to get fit themselves.
Margaret:
Okay. And so for example, one immediate problem that stands today was the website is with em, my own personal brand and giving advice on nutrition. But that's not included in Fuse sets. So if I've got, for example, blogs on Fuse session, with your fitness instructor go on, looking for a Fuse sets, eating and coming across sort of food blogs thinking, I don't really understand the relevance of this or am I overthinking it?
Lauren:
I think you might be overthinking just slightly, but it's really good you're putting this much thought into it. So that's a positive thing. I think a good brand hero for you, I'm sure you know her is like, I never say her last name right is Kayla Itsines, the Australian trainer. So you know how she's released, like the recipe book, and then her different types of programs. I'm envisioning something similar to you. So obviously, she has her signature workout style, which are the 28 minute total. So that's her. That's her workout style, but then she creates different programs off of that foundation. So I think it would be the exact same thing for you.
Margaret:
Yeah, that would be similar. And another one who's even more similar is Cassie Hall. She's American.
Lauren:
Oh, yeah. Blogilates.
Margaret:
So yeah, she's got blogilates and she's got pop pilates and actually, but I looked at to that it's two different websites. Because again, one is the fitness classes she created and the other is her personal brand. So I guess you could do it either way.
Phil:
That's what I want to stress is there's not one way or the other. Like, there's pros and cons to both. And ultimately, you get to make that decision. You don't just do what we tell you to do. I always opt for how do we make your life simpler, but then you also need to challenge the other side is like, if they're two separate audiences, we can't merge skydiving with life insurance. Do you know what I mean?
There's going to be times where you just if you've got two different audiences, then you know, then you really need to kind of build a platform that caters to it. So that's something just to marinate on and think about it. I'll give you one thought that I have from personal experience a little over a year ago, I split out the two verticals of my business which is working as a small collective as an agency providing creative services and branding with my career as a speaker because really to different audiences. Clients I would hire us to do their websites and their branding and speaking agents, managers or company organizers, two totally separate audiences. I made two websites to serve those two audiences.
But it became tricky when I was trying to figure out well, if I blog, what site do I blog on? Where do we put our podcasts? Where does everything go? And I it actually, so now I'm learning from my own mistake, and I'm merging the two, because I just don't have a lot of time in the day. And so the time I do have, I want to be impactful. And I need to put all my eggs in one basket, and just think creatively about how to target those audiences on that site. So food for thought.
Margaret:
Yeah, no, that's really useful because I'm actually about to start a podcast. And again, I can pitch it to be relevant to both markets. And I'm going to be doing a fitness Expo in Scotland in a couple of months, and both audiences will be their fitness professionals and clients. And so I want to be able to gather you know, their information together and to have one brand I think is going to look better than having to.
Phil:
I agree. Well, this is exciting. This is so exciting. You've got some things to think about what is going to be your next step. Tell us.
Margaret:
Well, I've only got a week left of the current beta test that I'm doing. And then I will, I run again, and then I'm going to be instructing someone to create my website, which I think I will now do as a joint website. And the ultimate aim will be to get the test I'm running off of a Facebook group and onto the website or basically do deliver on both people's channels. But something I wanted to ask you obviously, this is a you know, your expertise is how I merge the two brands aesthetically because my Fuse Fit branding is it's bright pink, purple and white. with some hints of black. Whereas with my personal brand, I would probably go for something much more subtle than that.
Phil:
Hmm, well, I kind of like I'm looking at it right now I love the pink tone in the word fit. So maybe that purple remains the prominent color in the Fuse Fit. And maybe you borrow from that pink tone, which could double as bright, but also professional that likes a nice kind of pink or told you agree, Lauren?
Lauren:
Yeah, yeah. And I think the great thing about you embracing your personal brand is that this is the moment to embrace something new if you want it. So if you're feeling tired of this existing brand or feeling like you, you're itching to serve, reinvent the visuals. like Phil said, you can just pull from the Fuse Fit brand colors that you like, but this is really an opportunity to start fresh if you want it.
Margaret:
Yeah. Well, I suppose what I'll be doing is I've hired someone to do a bit of artwork for me and she will be facing a local for my personal brand, which will ultimately probably head up the website, and suppose what you're seeing is as long as the logo didn't completely clash with the Fuse Fit logo that will go then awesome could sit together.
Phil:
Exactly. I think it's a good idea. Yeah, you also could update your Fuse Fit logo. If your brand is evolving, and you've got a personal brand, maybe your Fuse Fit logo updates as well. You can take that in whatever direction you want.
Margaret:
Yeah, yeah. Happy to keep it as possibly a bit decent now.
Phil:
No, yeah, I think you could. I mean, this is the perfect moment to give it a bit of a facelift. That's what I would do. I think it's exciting. Yep. Listen, well. Yeah. This is wonderful. We have to we have to jump on to our next recording. But we want to thank you for your time, Margaret. What a fun little conversation, promise that you'll circle back with us and tell us what you've updated and all the exciting developments since we chatted.
Margaret
I will definitely I will keep you posted.
Phil:
Thank you so much for hanging out with us, on Brand Therapy and good luck.
Margaret:
Thanks for your time.
Phil:
Well, good little chat with Margaret, I think some interesting findings there, which, interestingly enough specific to people in fitness, but also these kind of rules or conclusions are applicable to people in other industries.
Lauren:
Definitely, definitely. Fitness is you know, as Margaret was talking, I realized that the fitness industry is actually way more complex than it's often given credit for. It's so big and there's so many elements to it, whether it's like nutrition or the type of exercise that you're doing, the program that you're offering, if you yourself want to be an instructor, so I can understand why she was kind of grappling with making some of those bigger decisions.
Phil:
Yeah, on the outside. We take inventory and it's so simple. We're like, yes, use it as one, I think it will make her life easier. But again, doesn't necessarily need to combine it all into one websites to could still be multiple websites if they serve different audiences. There's no kind of one fits all for everyone in fitness and just in general. So I think it's important to have a dialogue about it, which is exactly what we do on this podcast.
Lauren:
Definitely. So what do you think were the main takeaways?
Phil:
Sure. So if we talk specifically about fitness, I would say people want to connect with a person, not just a company we gave the example of peloton, right, a new brand that's growing just insanely fast. The idea is that like they have live trainers that you can stream from the comfort of your home and you have this really souped up awesome bike that's very expensive, but you don't have to actually travel to a spin class to spin. They've been very smart in their branding, because they've really focused on the personalities that deliver the classes from a live studio is so cool. So we fall in love with the People don't really fall in love with companies. So when you are representing a company to be aware of that.
Lauren:
Definitely, definitely. I fully agree. And I think another one is like, another big factor that we learned on the call is the importance of distinguishing your audience so that you know how to sell efficiently. Like I did not think it was sustainable for Margaret to have two offerings at all. So I guess creating groups that would be easier to manage to appeal to different markets would really help her save time.
Phil:
Another thing that I was thinking about you and I both use an app called Classpass. And I think about the types of fitness classes we go to, in fitness and really, in business in general, don't shy away from specificity. Have you noticed that on Classpass, which I'm just using as an example, they have, gym time, you can do a block of gym time, and it's the fewest number of points, which means it cost the least amount of money yet I've never done that in over 100 classes. I've never even done that. I always go for the specific class, if it's like a specific, you know, a fun spin class on a Friday night or parties or boxing, the more specific the better to differentiate yourself in an industry that is very competitive.
Lauren:
Definitely. And I am the last kind of last takeaway is that if you've got a legacy brand, like Margaret did, it can be scary to change it. But I really think that if you're offering something new, that can be a real catalyst for rebranding, like that's your moment to take advantage of it. and update your visuals if you want to.
Phil:
If you've enjoyed this episode with Margaret, and by the way, thank you, Margaret, let us know. We want to hear from you. I'm @philpallen.
Lauren:
And I'm @thelaurenmoore.
Phil
#brandtherapy that's where we are following the conversation. That's where you can send a tweet and we will likely see you tag. Also, if you enjoyed the episode, leave a review, that really helps other people discover this podcast, iTunes, we're on Spotify as well. So we're actually everywhere that you are. Thanks for hanging out. Yeah. And we'll be back again soon with a brand new episode. See you then.
Lauren:
Bye.
